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Report 288
Report #288 Skillset: Night Skill: Longnight Org: Shadowdancers Status: Completed Dec 2009 Furies' Decision: Solution 1 Problem: As it stands, Longnight is a skill within Night that contains a hefty power cost of 25 shadows, 10 power for the Coven Leader, and a requirement of 13 Coven Members to execute the ability. In turn, this ability blocks the power abilities of all individuals, including the Coven, from being used. One of the main chagrins of this is that it allows for a side to permanently maintain a meld without possibility of breaking it. The following solutions are recommended: 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Individuals within the local area effected by Longnight will expend double power when using power moves. For example, SPIRITBOND NATURE in Longnight would cost 10p instead of 5p. Abilities above 5p would be unusable in Longnight. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Player Comments: ---on 11/7 @ 03:41 writes: I'm okay with this, as it no longer makes melds and such completely unbreakable. Still affects everyone. Using it still requires 13 people from 1 organization, which (at the moment) is feasible at times, but it's still very rare except during specific hours of the day. As long as requirements are what they are it needs to remain powerful, but... not quite as powerful as it is. ---on 11/7 @ 19:22 writes: My only issue with reporting this is that Longnight has such a steep cost, and that the current effect was pretty warranted given the steep requirements. ---on 11/8 @ 03:26 writes: I would like to see Longnight, being as powerful a skill it is, need 13 true Night users in order to be used, as opposed to, say, a single night user and 12 Nightwraiths. ---on 11/8 @ 07:15 writes: In other words, you'd like to see it either 1) Be as overpowered as it is now, or 2) Not even castable. Not ideal solutions, really. ---on 11/8 @ 16:17 writes: @Aiyana: Uh. No. If that change goes through, Longnight should remain the same as it is now. ---on 11/8 @ 16:19 writes: Though a change like that shouldn't go through. Night users are not as plentiful as one thinks, and to actually have even a few true Night users around is a rarity. I still maintain that the solution above is the way to go if you're looking to tone down Longnight. It's still powerful, as it should be, given the requirements that it has ---on 11/19 @ 23:25 writes: If the point of this report is to tone down longnight to allow the breaking of melds, then we may want to consider only allowing 1p skills (charged at a double rate or waht have you) to be used in it. Allowing skills up to 5p to be used will allow for choke to be used in longnight, while simultaneously preventing the instakills and main power moves from most of the other specs. ---on 11/20 @ 00:24 writes: It would not stop the low-power staple power moves (Choke is one, yes, but also Lunge, Sweep, Assault, Crush for warriors, for example). It does stop the "ultimate" skills though. You don't think it would be too powerful still if people couldn't use any power skills over 1p in cost? ---on 11/20 @ 04:26 writes: Making it only work for 1p abilities is really silly. Just make it double power cost for all abilities. ---on 12/17 @ 04:39 writes: The genie in the bottle here is what abilities get cut out of the fight. Choke doesn't, but cruicify does. Inquisition is stopped. I'd suggest doubling power costs, but anything over five works, but is capped at 10 power, which would avoid the issue. Failing that, whatever genie comes out of the bottle is probably preferrable to unbreakable melds anyway. ---on 12/18 @ 03:23 writes: If 10p skills still cost 10p... eh, that doesn't really make the skill all that worthwhile given its requirements, IMO. Lunge would be 4p each, assault 8p, and crucify would be 10p? ---on 12/18 @ 05:22 writes: Agree with Xenthos. Akui's suggestion would just make Longnight useless and never used. I'm still maintaining that it should just double the power for all abilities. Abilities over 5p cannot be used. ---on 12/18 @ 16:11 writes: It hardly makes it useless, doubling powercosts is a big deal. My suggestion heads off the issue of "side A's obnoxious group skill works, and side B's obnoxious group skill is completely blocked". In the case of crucify, it would mean that, for example, the user would use it, and have to wait for a full 10 power to fire it again, as opposed to firing it, and waiting for 4. Granted, this solution would "screw me over" personally, as the highest power skill I'd be likely to use is a 5p instakill, and 8p assaults are terribly unappealing, so I can see the problems with it. I just see a danger in drawing a line that cuts out some "crucial" (poor word choice, but you get the idea) abilities entirely while leaving others available. ---on 12/18 @ 16:58 writes: You're also failing to see that Longnight requires 13 Coven Members, and 25 Shadows to utilize. This is an ability that should intentionally be powerful given the costs to use it, Akui. I don't entirely think you should find the prospect of 8p Assault's unappealing. It is certainly better than no assaults at all. The double power prospect is perfectly suitable as it solves the main issue of melds not being able to be broken in Longnight, while still giving Longnight a strong sense of function and utility to make it actually WORTH the high cost that it has ---on 12/18 @ 17:55 writes: You're not addressing my concern here about where the line is drawn and what abiltities are still useable, while others are not. My comments non assaults weren't meant as a detraction from the idea, but to illustrate the problem with my own idea- an 8p assault compared to a 10p crucify- and to say that despite that, such a situation seems perferrable to me than cutting out some "essential" abiltites, but leaving others in. This latter situation creates a slew of potentially dicey balance issues. I'm wondering if we can find a solution that resolves the demesne breaking issues without opening a can of worms of allowing some abilities, while wholly blocking others. ---on 12/19 @ 02:42 writes: Nydekion suggests lowering the cost to 8 Night users and 20 shadows, and changing the effect to only prevent targetable power skills that hit a player- so no assaults, inqui, cruci, choke, etc. Skills that don't strike a player would work normally, so melds would be breakable. Alternately his suggestion, I was thinking at work today that lowering the cost to some extent as a general rule might make more impactful suggestions more palatable. ---on 12/23 @ 00:03 writes: I think the suggestion is fine as-is, really. Keeps a high cost, remains powerful for that cost, but it's not omg-game-over. ---on 12/23 @ 15:19 writes: I actually like Zynna's idea of 1p feats only. Allows melds to be contested while still doing nearly everything else longnight does. Either that or 13 true night users (yes I know, overpowered or useless, but given the lack of a similar coven skill in Moon I kind of get the sense that Longnight is supposed to be an amazing, shock-and-awe skill that rarely sees use. Could be wrong, just a hunch.).